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When you meet her, Dr. Ann Burgess most resembles a real-life Betty Crocker.
Hulu
Betty Crocker, apparently.
And for the most part, the woman who is basically a blueprint forOlivia Bensondidnt mind.
Still, her name is one you should probably know.
Dr. Ann Burgess attends the Tribeca Festival for the premiere of Hulu’sMastermind: To Think Like a Killerin New York. Says Dakota Fanning, who is an executive producer on the series: “If anything about my career [or platform] helps Dr. Burgess’s name be at the forefront then I’m so happy about that.”
Her research with victims began when she cofoundedone of the first hospital-based crisis counseling programsat Boston City Hospital.
(Dr. Burgess was the inspiration for Anna Torvs character, Dr. Wendy Carr, in NetflixsMindhunter.)
Shes had to be as tough as nails while making those in her presence feel safe and protected.
From the widely known Ed Kemper and Ted Bundy cases to lesser-known ones like the Ski Mask Rapist, Dr. Burgess investigates and studies the victims and damaged psyches of their attackers, putting two halves of the same story together to catch a killer. The Fanning sisters knew they wanted to help tell Dr. Burgess’s story. “Dakota and I try to be as hands-on as possible, and not just lend our name and that be it,” Elle Fanning says. “I’ve learned so much. As sisters and as women, bringing these stories to life is something that Dakota and I are really interested in.”
Dr. Burgess travels all the time, but taking a vacation is pretty much out of the question.
Its not that she cantshe just doesnt want to.
Its up to the person, she says.
Dr. Ann Burgess and Lynda Holmstrom, professor of sociology, at Boston College in 1975. Of the sexism that Dr. Burgess constantly faced, Dakota Fanning says, “When talking about that boy’s-club mentality and the things that she dealt with…she had a very simple response to it: ‘They weren’t ready for it.’”
And now the rest of America will see why.
Glamour:Given the title of the docuseries, do you consider yourself a mastermind?
Dr. Ann Burgess:No, no.
I let other people pick titles, so they thought that would be great.
But in a way, the title pulls everything together.
I consider you a real-life Olivia Benson, even though you came way before the character.
Is that an accurate description?
Thats very accurate and very perceptive of you.
Do you watchLaw & Order: Special Victims Unit?
If I have the time.
Why do you think America is so obsessed with true crime stories?
A couple of reasons.
First, theyre educational.
Usually with victimization, people dont want to identify with it, right?
So, women hear it and can learn from it.
Its always in the offender.
They need to be celebrated the same way a cancer survivor is.
Right, and even just looking at the language is important.
Were they a patient, were they a victim?
The whole language ofsurvivorcomes in to say that they have moved on, so to speak.
But I think that Mariskas work in media has helped immensely to get the story out.
Now you dont hear as much about serial killers or kidnappers the way we did growing up.
Id agree with you.
I dont hear as much on kidnapping, though were not hearing all the cases that are going on.
We say youve got to have your antenna up when youre outside.
I knocked on three doors before I got to yours.
Well, she opened the door, but it doesnt matter.
She was expecting people, and yet hes able to traumatize her in a way.
Shell hear that in her head months afterwards.
How have you not crippled from fear and the intensity of what you do?
I did have a situation when my youngest daughter came home and nobody could find her.
We called the police, and then an hour later, she came sauntering up the road.
She had gone home with a classmate, but it was terrifying…everything flashes in your head.
Those false alarms have probably happened to everybody in some way.
Less than a couple of minutes later, he was gone.
How do you deal with the sheer terror of these crimes?
I deal with it because nursing has taught me how to deal with it.
We have to be able to look at very distressing situations.
I guess compartmentalizing is the best way to put it.
You cant take it home.
I always had somebody I could talk to about cases.
You have to debrief.
You cant just go through an interview [with a survivor or a killer] and forget it.
The Fanning sisters knew they wanted to help tell Dr. Burgesss story.
Ive learned so much.
Is there a high-profile case you didnt work on that you wouldve liked to have been a part of?
Well, some of the ones that got solved later.
Dont forget, Dennis Rader, known as BTK, was out there for quite a while.
The Green River Killer took a long time to solve.
Those were the very interesting ones.
Of course, the JonBenet Ramsey case is still not solved.
What are your thoughts on JonBenets case?
He surveyed the crime scene and realized how far the familys parents room was vis-a-vis JonBenets.
Theres a big difference.
And I think it was one person responsible, but they still dont have him.
How do you mentally prepare before you sit down with a serial killer or a survivor?
Do you get nervous going into these rooms?
I always take somebody with me.
I do not do them alone.
And I take my big German Shepherd dog.
No, I don’t do that.
Do you have a German Shepherd dog, though?
How would you say working in this field has shaped you as a human being?
Well, certainly I have a greater appreciation for trauma.
That is not anything Id learned in nursing to any degree, and that was all new.
Were taught to be very observant.
Were taught to carefully look at evidence and things that many people wouldnt ordinarily do.
Certainly not police, certainly not even necessarily medical people, but nursing has done that.
I think the whole field of forensics has been very interesting.
Now theyre getting into the hereditary aspect of it and doing some DNA, which results in fascinating work.
The whole field has expanded, and it’s been very rewarding to see that.
Your work was cut out for you.
That will be interesting.
Im still in touch with several of them.
Im sure hes going to watch.
Ken Lanning is another one thats probably going to watch that we did a lot.
He worked with children.
That was his specialty, so itll be interesting to see.
I hope they do.
Dr. Ann Burgess and Lynda Holmstrom, professor of sociology, at Boston College in 1975.
Youre 87 years young and teaching a full course load.
Well, none of the things you just identified interest me.
Im not good at gardening.
I just think it looks calming.
Im not good at any of those things, so Ill keep doing what Im doing.
I find it very rewarding.
Some people may need to take a vacation when theyre 50 or 60 or 70 or 80.
What are some of the life lessons you like to share with anyone starting out in their career?
I think people have to keep the sense of humor.
Thats something that tells me where your mental health is.
People that are grumpy and dont see anything positive are in for trouble as they get older.
You cant take yourself too seriously.
Do what you enjoy.
Be in a profession that you enjoy.
So it was a win-win.
How do you wind down after a long day or week?
Thats about the only time Ive had a chance…to see if the worlds still here.
Its pretty grim out there.
Our country is not in a good place, let me put it that way.
What do you say to people who are really worried about the state of the world right now?
Youve got to have a social data pipe.
Weve learned this through research.
Finally, what do you want people to take away fromMastermindonce they watch?
No, its not.
Nurses are there to help.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
Mastermind: To Think Like a Killerpremieres on Hulu on Thursday, July 11.
